52. From “Too Much” to Just Right: Embracing your gifted and 2e identity - Meet Dr. Erin Krellwitz
Gifted adults often carry a quiet ache: the sense of being “too much” for most rooms and somehow not enough for the ones that matter. In our conversation with neurodivergent coach Erin Krellwitz, we unpack what it means to be gifted and twice-exceptional (2e) beyond grades and test scores. Giftedness shows up as intensity, sensitivity, divergent curiosity, and deep moral drive, not just perfect homework. Erin’s path—PhD in molecular systematics, science education, research labs, then a deliberate pivot to parenting and later to coaching—reveals a pattern many gifted adults know well: dive deep, master the game, then redesign life to match values. She shows how belonging starts when we stop shrinking and start naming what actually fits our brains, our bodies, and our lives.
A major theme is how executive function hides in plain sight, especially in caregiving. Parenting isn’t just love; it’s thousands of micro-decisions while sleep-deprived, from clothes to meals to schedules, all filtered through a heightened gifted or ADHD brain. That cognitive load adds up. Erin’s story of choosing low-stakes, tactile work illustrates a compassionate strategy: ease the decision burden to recover bandwidth. We discuss how standardized tests miss complex minds, especially for twice-exceptional kids whose ADHD or sensory differences mask their ability. A perfect worksheet tells nothing about boredom, meaning, or misfit curriculum. Many adults carry the false story that poor test scores equal low intellect; it’s often a measurement problem, not an ability problem.
We go practical with sensory needs. Fidgets, discreet rings, loop-style earplugs, and comfortable clothing aren’t indulgences; they’re tools that protect focus and regulate overwhelm. Choosing earrings by weight, setting hair to avoid tactile fatigue, and wearing shoes that don’t hijack attention are small moves with huge returns. In open offices or loud conferences, earplugs that lower ambient noise while preserving voices extend social stamina. These adjustments aren’t about fragility; they’re precision engineering for a sensitive nervous system. When we normalize tools, we normalize access to our best thinking and most generous attention.
Community turns the lights on. At SENG and other gifted spaces, the traits often labeled “too much” become cheered. A teenager told to stop raising his hand becomes the person who sparks richer dialogue. Adults who have learned to tidy away their joy can visibly relax, ask better questions, and form real friendships. That shift—being seen without contorting—is both healing and catalytic. It changes how we work, parent, and choose. Erin’s coaching approach starts from a powerful premise: clients are naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. The work is iterative experimentation—try, observe, adjust—guided by what you want now, not what you “should” want forever.
We close on choice and seasons. Gifted multipotentialites often face a different problem: too many appealing paths. The answer isn’t finding your one true calling; it’s choosing the next chapter with intention. You can love science and love caregiving. You can switch careers at 40 or 55 and still be on time. And remember the family lens: neurodivergence often runs in clusters, so your personal baseline of “normal” may be skewed. If everyone around you shares early readers, sock sensitivities, and favorite spoons, you’re not imagining things—you’re in a neurodivergent ecosystem. Rewriting your story starts with noticing that, then building habits, tools, and communities that let you be fully you.
Would you like to work with me 1:1 as your gifted and 2e coach? Please send me an email at hello@giftedunleashed.com or find more information about my coaching offer on my website giftedunleashe.com/coaching
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
After earning her PhD in Botany, Dr. Erin Krellwitz developed science education materials, then managed a nephrology research lab. She worked part-time as a photographer’s assistant while raising 2e kids. She started training as a life coach in 2023, specializing in neurodivergent adults. Her intent as a coach is to hold a safe space for her clients to explore what they want their life to be like. They can experiment with what solutions actually work (or don’t) for their unique circumstances they can consider modifications based on the results of those experiments.
Learn more about Erin and how you can work with her on her website: mossandmaplecoaching.com The upcoming SENG Community Group facilitated by Erin are listed here.
More about Supporting the Emotional Needs of the Gifted (SENG)
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TRANSCRIPT:
Nadja: 00:02
Hello and welcome to Gifted Unleashed, where we talk about the gifted and twice-exceptional brain and how it affects our thinking and experience of the world differently. There are a lot of stereotypes and stigma around the term giftedness, and I'm here to challenge those. I'm here to raise awareness and to have a conversation around the topic of what it means to be a gifted and twice-exceptional adult. Common experience among gifted folks is that they feel out of place. They don't quite fit in. They're too sensitive, too intense, too emotional, too overexcitable, and too deep thinkers of the world and about themselves. So if you have been called too much of anything, this show is for you. I'm Nadja, I'm too loud, too colourful, too bobbly, too bossy, and I love to talk too much. So welcome to my world. I'm so happy you're here. Hello everyone, welcome back to the most amazing podcast, Gifted Unleashed, where we talk about giftedness and twice exceptionality in adults. And today we have a wonderful guest. She's my friend and a fellow coach, Erin Krellwitz. And her CV obviously is much longer than this short intro, but she will talk about who she is and how she came into this field of neurodivergent poaching. So I'm very excited to have her on the podcast. So welcome, Erin. Hi, it's so good to see you. So good to see you too. And this podcast has been in the making for like a year or longer. And so at least. At least. So we met two years ago at the SENG conference in Philadelphia. SENG is supporting the emotional needs of the gifted. It was my first SENG conference. It was your first SENGha. It was mine. Yes. And we just um yeah, met and clicked. So maybe you can tell me a little bit why you were there in the first place and how you got into this gifted space.
Erin: 01:58
Just a short question. I got into the gift. Well, the reason I was at SENG was that I have two kids. They were adolescents. I was looking at what was the next thing after spending a lot of time parenting. And I was exploring the idea of being a coach because I really, my kids get more and more interesting as they get older, which I didn't think was possible because I love babies, but it's true. And I thought if I could spend my time helping and talking to kids like them or young adults like them, I didn't really want to work with little children, that that would be really cool. And so I got into coaching and I was like, well, if I want to work with gifted people, I should go. And I looked it up, and the SENG conference was like three weeks away or something ridiculously soon. But it's not, it was within driving distance. And I was like, hey, I think I'm gonna go to this. And then I asked my oldest if he wanted to go, because that year they had a youth program for like young adults. And he was like, sure. So I went for professional reasons and then actually like walked in and I was like, oh, I have found my people. Like watched him just light up in a way that he hadn't for quite a while. And um just super intense late nights talking with people, early morning yoga, which is where I remember meeting you in first. And it was just, it was a lot of fun. And so that kind of solidified for me that I was in the right place. And I sat down one afternoon with you and one or two other women who were coaches in this space, at least one other who had shifted from a science background. And so we're all sitting there. I was like, okay, so y'all have a little more experience than me. My biggest question is, do you get bored? Because as a gifted person, looking at, you know, investing a couple years into something like that rat matters. And you all looked at me, we were like, no, people are endlessly surprising and interesting. And I was like, okay, I'm good.
Nadja: 04:16
So that was then your beginning of your coaching journey after SENG Conference.
Erin: 04:22
Yeah, I had taken one coaching class before that. So I had started my training. But I was like, I don't know, 12 hours into my 60 for IFC or ICF coaching people.
Nadja: 04:37
So how did you find the gifted space in the first place? I mean, people don't really just, you know, think about, oh, if I want to go into neurodivergent coaching, I'm gonna go to the SENG conference. I guess the term gifted or giftedness, this topic with a lot of prejudice and, you know, the ickiness to it. How did you find it and how did you connect it to yourself?
Erin: 05:06
So on the one hand, I was identified as gifted in school. I went to a tiny alternative school for a while that required an IQ test to get in. And so I still don't know the number on that. My mom would only give us the comparison if we deviated from norm, from the norm in the other direction, what that would mean. So I knew I was smart. I knew I was good at school. I was expressly told by my parents when I was being super obnoxious that both my siblings were actually technically smarter than me. They're just younger, and that's why they didn't know things. Because I could be a real big sister at times. So, in terms of just understanding that there is a range of abilities, like that was something that was normal in my family. And um, and education was normal in my family. So my mom was the first in her generation, in her family, to go to college, but then my grandmother went to college after her. My mom and my second dad both went and got masters first while I was in high school and college, because they didn't do them at the same time. My dad's family had um, my grandfather had a PhD, my dad went to graduate school, so education was pretty normal. But the idea of gifted as not just good at school wasn't until my kids came along, my youngest got an ADHD diagnosis, and I was looking for resources to better. She was young enough that she couldn't express herself and what was happening internally for her. Um so I was looking for resources and I stumbled upon a podcast that had kids with I think ADHD, autism, and giftedness. And some of the things they were describing, I was just like, oh, that's really familiar. And all of a sudden, instead of it being something I was listening to to better understand my youngest, it became something that very much reflected my oldest. And so that kind of introduced me to the idea that gifted was another neurotype that was more than just school. But then, and I think around then I looked into SENG just for more information and to kind of, you know, the way we all jumped down a rabbit hole. And at the time, they were only offering parent groups for support groups, mostly in person. And there wasn't, I didn't feel enough need for that to bother with it, to, to deal with all of the hoops that that required. Um, and really it was because in looking back, I have several really, really close friends who are also raising two-e kids. We didn't know the term two-e at the time, but we were all doing that. So I had that kind of support. I didn't really need to get it. But that's I recognize the exception and not the norm for most people.
Nadja: 08:42
Yeah, and that's why I have this podcast to share, you know, stories of other people who are on this journey more by themselves that they can really recognize and you know, relate and then take this and say, Oh, me too, and maybe this is really the space I need to be in and look deeper. And you mentioned test scores, and just, you know, for clarification, we do not require test scores for for our clients or for the listeners here. Like this is just for you, as you said, you got tested for school that you weren't gifted at. So coming in contact with this term later in life, you're like, okay, yes, I had that label, so there must be something there. And if they're talking about it in a different way, and now it's not just about academics and output, because just to say here also, you have a PhD, right, in botany.
Erin: 09:43
I have a undergraduate degree in environmental science and forestry. Well, it's from the SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry. It's environmental and forest biology, is the BS. Then I came down to Duke and got a PhD straight through in molecular systematics of a group of seaweeds. So it was in the botany department. That's one of those kind of light-giftedness where I adjust what I say depending on how I want to interact with people. So if I want to keep a conversation open and it's somebody who's not in science, I'm like, oh yeah, it was marine botany. And people are like, ooh, marine biology is cool. And I'm like, yeah, no dolphins. I was looking at seaweeds. But still, like it feels accessible to people. And if somebody is being arrogant, I would say, and gets my backup, then I'm like, oh, molecular systematics. Yeah. And they're like, I don't know what that is. And I'm like, yeah, I know.
Nadja: 10:49
It's just doctor for you. Exactly. Aaron for everybody else. Yeah. And it was so funny because going back to when we met, right? As saying, and I ask you, Oh, what do you do? And you say, Oh, I'm a housewife. And I was like, Oh, okay. And then we kept talking, and then, oh, you have a PhD.
Nadja: 11:09
Yeah.
Nadja: 11:10
And I'm like, okay, yeah, there's something there. I think you're also one of the gifted people here. And yeah. And I'm not saying you need a PhD to be gifted. Um, but it was just such a gift, like the the way you said it, it was kind of like this gifted way of like you you didn't tie your whole identity on it, but it was kind of like, yeah, of course, like my brain needs to be tickled and I need to stimulate my brain in order to be happy.
Erin: 11:41
I mean, after I finished my PhD, I I have known that I wanted to be a parent since I was three when my sister, my sister was born when I was two and a half. Like I wanted to be a parent. Like I knew that that was absolutely a goal. So I finished my PhD, was looking at postdocs. My husband looked at me, he's like, Well, and I was like, I don't really want to move. I like the area we're in. And he's like, Well, what do you really want to do now? I was like, I want to have kids. And he's like, wait, what? Like, I mean, we knew that we wanted to have a family, but like that, like 180 of like, I'm going to get a PhD and now I want to drop everything and have babies was like, what? But but a lot of it was like giving myself time to be old enough to feel like I could parent well. And then realizing, like I fully intended to be a professor. That was absolutely my intent. And then I saw what professors were doing and how many hours they were working and how that didn't work as a parent unless they had a co-parent who was doing it full time. And I was like, that's not me. That's not what I want in my life. So coming out of grad school, I actually worked for Carolina Biological Supply, and they provide science education materials all throughout the US. And I worked in their product development and wrote the instructions for teachers for how to do stuff, which is so much fun because you don't have to cite anything. And I had just written my dissertation and it was such a relief. But we got to play with science all the time. And it was, it was a lot of fun. I enjoyed that job. And then I went back. One of my friends that I met in that job went back to Duke as a lab manager and in a research lab. And the lab next to her was hiring. And so I got that job and worked in a nephrology lab, basically genotyping their transgenic mice, which is people are like, ooh. And I'm like, no, it's really housekeeping. It's it really is basic, basic, repetitive stuff, but it was low impact and it was nice. Um and in that whole time we were trying to have kids, and it that took a long time. So while I was at that job is when my oldest was born. And I went part-time and was able to be home with him during the day, go work a few hours at night, and my husband would take care of him. And then when grants ran out, they couldn't keep me. And so I went to work for a photographer who had a little tiny studio, and I did a little bit of everything. And at that point, I was so ready. I was like, I don't want a job where I have to think. Like, tell me what to do. I will happily do it. I will be very precise. Like at the time, we would print out these big sheets of images and have to cut them perfectly on these lines to put them into albums. And like that kind of precision is exactly what I needed. Because with a toddler, you are making decisions for that person all the time. And it is exhausting. It was so nice to not think for a little while.
Nadja: 15:19
And I'm spiling because, as, you know, sorry to interrupt, but like, you know, when you say I make decisions for the toddler, I think, you know, a gifted or twice-exceptional brain, there's more going on. And maybe we think of more decisions that we can make.
Erin: 15:37
I think it's just that there's just a little more weight to them. It's like you have to decide what they're going to wear. Well, what's the weather? What are we going to do? How long are they probably going to be in this outfit for before they do something that means you have to change them again? But you don't really know. So there's that. And then you get them done. And then you have to feed them. And you're like, am I going to make decisions about what they're supposed to eat? Or am I going to let them like offer them choices? And are they old enough to make choices? And do we have this stuff? And have I gone to the grocery store? And like when it comes to executive function, I don't think people realize the executive function required to have a small child. Like it is a lot, and you're not sleeping enough. And it feels high pressure because like this small being is depending on you. And yeah, it's a lot. It should not be discounted how exhausting that burden of decisions is. And saying all that, I loved being home. Like I I loved being pregnant. I loved having a newborn. I loved being home. I wouldn't change any of that for me. I have friends who were like, okay, it's time to go back to work. Like this is not doing it for me. I need that input. I need that. And I found it in other ways. You know, I did other things to, you know, listen to books on tape or listen, you know, do projects around the house, other things that kept me engaged and interested. Yeah, that was that was interesting. And then when my oldest turned the day before he turned five, his little sister came along and she's adopted. So we did not know. I got a call when I was at the karate dojo saying, I'm headed to the hospital with the birth mother we had matched with. I was like, I'm having a baby today, which is not something that most women get to say while, you know, working out somewhere. So we we adopted her. She was with us from day one. We went to the hospital, we're with her. Um, but the thing is, like my son was already in school by then. So I'm like shifting back to being full-time the caregiver for someone tiny, which again I loved, but it's it's been very interesting. I feel like she was like fate put her in the right family, but she's super bright, but has significant ADHD, and that has come into play. And like you were saying about the test scores, that those attentional issues have meant that her test scores don't reflect her intelligence. So I don't also I know my sister is smarter than me, and I always outscored her on tests. So I don't hold with a whole lot of testing.
Nadja: 19:09
Yeah, you can overthink tests and then do very poorly on them. And so that that that's a good example also for you know the audience to to really hear this to say, like, okay, right, I wasn't good in school or I had bad test scores. So that doesn't mean you're not gifted. Maybe you're twice exceptional, or maybe you're just smart at end of test.
Erin: 19:36
But I've learned more. I've looked back and gone, oh, that's what was happening. But one of the stories that I really that actually kept in mind even before I knew about giftedness was when I was in second grade, I was in a public school. I had a young, fairly new teacher who I adored. I thought she was just wonderful. And she called a meeting with my mom about my math because I wasn't doing well in math. And my mom said, Okay, can I see her worksheets? And she she's like, Yeah, here. She's not finishing them in the time allotted. And my mom was like, So the parts she does, oh yeah, yeah, they're all perfect, but she's not finishing them. Mom was like, Do you think maybe she's bored? But she needs to fit like this teacher could not let go of this is how it's supposed to be done. And my mom was like, Yeah, no.
Nadja: 20:37
She got the gist of it. Why, why do them, why do them all if you do, you know, half and you do them correctly? Why, why keep going? It's just repetitive.
Erin: 20:46
So I always kept that in the back of my head in working, you know, advocating for my kids, talking to about things. And I think having a mom who then looked at that and went, okay, the public school is not serving you well. We're gonna move you into the school that your sister is at that allows a lot more freedom. It wasn't Montessori, but it was student-driven that way. So we had a lot of control over our own education. And that helped when I went back to public school and I could advocate for myself. And it was so ingrained at that point that I just assumed that of course I cared about my own education, and teachers were flabbergasted by that. But yeah, so my mom and my grandmother were both teachers. I learned the word pedagogy at the kitchen table. I went to schools. We moved a fair bit. So I went to a number of different schools, plus that private school, each with a different premise of you know what pedagogy they were using. And I could see that that none of them were perfect. It's a matter of what matches that child well. So here we were fortunate that there are public Montessori schools. So my kids got into the public Montessori elementary school, which fed into the public Montessori middle school. And that's there are very few of those in the country. And I feel like that worked well for them. Although I think there were difficulties because it was a public school and they require state testing, that I don't think is a great thing. But I don't need to get on that soapbox today.
Nadja: 22:48
Oh, thank you for sharing your story. Also, like very personal, right? Giving an insight of how you grew up and also how you then are raising your own children and how you're parenting two, I I would say twice exceptional kids. And in that process, realizing, oh, I'm also neurodivergent.
Erin: 23:15
First, I want to just be clear that before this I came on this podcast, I checked with both my kids. So they have consented to me to share anything that I share. It's it's a weird balance in my mind because it's my story of parenting, but it's their story of childhood. So I don't want to, I just wanted to be clear that the consent was given before I start talking about them. But yes, they both have um ADHD diagnoses, and one was identified officially in school as gifted, the other one wasn't identified but is, then that's another whole two e situation that I will add in my younger one, is like I said, she's adopted and she's a she's black, so I'm raising a black child. And it would be easy to tell the story as my white male identified child was identified as gifted but not identified as ADHD in school. Whereas my black female child who is a combined type ADHD. So she definitely has the hyperactivity in there. But the ADHD was identified, but the giftedness was not. In reality, I don't think that actually comes down to race and gender in their case, but it is a really common situation that race and gender play into those identifications. The ironic part is that my my daughter is more hyperactive, which is often associated more with boys. And my son is has a very uh inattentive. Yeah. So he presents as a very inattentive type, and that's more commonly seen in girls. Now, I don't have any diagnoses. The reality is that if you look at the DSM, it says that it has to disrupt areas of your life, and my life is set up in a way that I'm well supported so it doesn't disrupt aspects of my life. At the same time as I'm learning about when my oldest wanted to get a diagnosis, he was 18, he wanted to get evaluated, and so I started looking more into adult experiences with ADHD. And then I went, oh, those are I do that, and I do that, and I do that.
Nadja: 26:19
Well, this is ADHD. I thought uh if I cannot just sit still, then that's it, right? But we were talking right before the call, and we both have our fidget toys, and I I can share one. Yes, we have matching fidget toys that we got together. So there's always something. And even before I got my official diagnosis, my partner said, Oh, all your pictures, like as a child, you always hold something in your hand. And I was like, I never really realized it. But apparently that's the thing. I always clearly needed to be occupied in some way.
Erin: 27:06
I didn't realize until I was in my coach training how kinesthetic and tactile I am, which is ironic because I spent years doing a whole bunch of in-depth sewing. I love fabric, I love touching fabric, and also, you know, doing the training online, all of a sudden I'm watching myself on Zoom and I'm like, oh, I'm all over the place. Like my face is going, my hands are going. I've had to like uh because I've always talked with my hands. And if I'm in Zoom, like this is where I would normally have my hands. And but because of Zoom, I've like adjusted so that I talk up here to help explain things. But um yeah, the and the more I've read about autism, the more there are aspects of autism that really feel familiar. And you know, when you're reading something and you're like, doesn't everybody do that? Like that's weird, like what? And I hit that a lot more with autism. So what I'm comfortable saying is yes, I'm gifted, definitely neurodivergent, but beyond that, I don't know. And I don't know that it matters because I find looking at both ADHD and autism self-reports by adults helps me see aspects of myself and then what they're doing to to compensate or to live authentically, or all of to build what they want helps me figure out what I might want to try. So I didn't think about fidgets until I don't know, two years ago, a year ago. Actually, it was at that saying, I have it at my other desk. But they gave out a fidget as part of the like bag that you get when you register. The number of people fidgeting in all of those rooms with those fidgets was hysterical to me. And I still have it. And I've since bought more fidgets that just suit me well.
Nadja: 29:31
Yes. I have a comment because yes, I also do that. And I also kind of like, you know, like um, yeah, playing with toys, right? We probably as a neurodivergent, we got, I would say a lot of us got bullied or being called childish. So then, you know, bringing a toy and and playing with it in public. I also started, you know, the fidget spinners when they were like uh Trend. I I didn't jump on it. I didn't I didn't play until my friend gave me one. And I was like, oh my God, now I understand. But then I wear a lot of rings. And I don't there are fidget rings, right? Yes. This is a fidget ring. Yeah, you have a fidget ring. It spins. So? Yes. So you but I I just spin, you know, the gold ring. Uh I'm not wearing it now. But I actually don't like wearing the rings so much because I can feel them. But that's exactly why I wear them, because I can I get to play with them or in a meeting, like it's not as disruptive as if you bring out, you know, the fidget spinner. And you you can do it under the table, but I constantly play with these. Same with the diamond rings.
Nadja: 30:56
Yeah.
Erin: 30:57
The other ring I have is um my husband and I replaced, we I was in a karate dojo, and then we were both doing a lot of weightlifting. And you can't do that with good rings on. So we each have a silicone wedding band now. Um and I play with that a lot. This fidget one ring I just got this summer. My oldest, we were at the zoo and looking around with my niece, and he found it in the gift shop. He's like, ooh. And so we each got one. But I also started wearing bracelets that I can fidget with. And when you said you can't wear them because you can feel them, that's I love the idea of wearing earrings. I just have about an hour's worth of tolerance.
Nadja: 31:44
Yep.
Nadja: 31:46
Yeah, that that's the whole and and maybe that's also something where people can identify. I have another friend who just doesn't want to wear jewelry. She said, you know, it's uncomfortable. But until pointing out to her, saying, like, I don't think everybody feels so strongly against jewelry, and we're just all wearing it against um feeling well. I, you know, like I think that tells me something about you if you feel so strongly about any jewelry on your body. And yeah. And exactly that, like these heavy earrings that a lot of women wear that are very stylish, very heavy. Like I choose earrings by weight. The the lighter they are, the better I like them. So that's how you choose. Absolutely.
Erin: 32:44
My hairstyles are like this having a braid and having it touching my neck will be fine for this, and I'll be good for the day. By the end of the day, I need to have it off my neck, and so I'll have it all piled up on top of my head because then it's not pulling if it's got the weight in the like there's like the whole system. I think that sensory thing is I don't, I can't pin it to any one like neurotype, but the whole sensory space. I read a post where somebody was talking about realizing that they were in a neurodivergent household when they realize that not everybody announces that they're gonna start the blender before they start the We do that all the time. Like that's just standard operating. Like loud noise.
Nadja: 33:40
Oh, one other thing that I got this summer when everybody started taking out their loop earplugs. And yes, this is not a sponsored podcast, but I went and bought myself some some earplugs and I've been trying them out. And I think there's something there. Just, you know, this noise in the background that just drains us more, maybe than the average person.
Erin: 34:08
I need the loops because I haven't tried those, but I had a different brand. And when we met this summer for BloomCon, it bought me so much more engagement time because I didn't when I started to get overwhelmed by the sound and people around me, I could put those in. And it's very funny to watch me with them because when they're in, they actually block background noise, but not voices. And scientifically, I do not understand that, but it works. So I can hear conversation very well. But when I go to answer, I'm not modulating my voice to match the noise level because it's lower for me. So I have to put them in to listen to people and pull them out to talk so that I talk loud enough, which is like completely backwards from most things, but or most earplugs, but they really have made a big difference when I remember to use them.
Nadja: 35:13
Yeah, and I just wish I knew about them a little bit earlier. That's why I'm I'm sharing now for the audience to who's listening. If you work in an open office space, for example, maybe uh these might be something to try out. And I've been using, you know, noise hand canceling headphones, but for those, I was always playing music, and sometimes that can be distracting. Sometimes it's just music to folk like focus tunes, so it's not really music, it's more like these focused tunes. But I think there's something different with these earplugs, especially that they have different types. One is really like the quiet one where it's trying to block out most sounds, but also the the one where you, as you said, you you can still engage with people where you hear them talk, but when it's very loud around the surrounding is loud, that that gets tuned out a little bit and dead. So I think that that was really a new on top of the fidget toy, something I discovered this year.
Erin: 36:21
The other thing is I've really leaned into clothing that is comfortable for me, that I don't get to the end of the day and desperately want to get out of. Um and I think what that is varies from person to person. Of course. But having stuff that you can put on that feels comfortable both physically and mentally. Like if I'm wearing something that I feel very self-conscious in that wear is on me. But also if I wear something that I think looks fabulous but doesn't feel good, again, I have a limit. Like I love wearing heels for about two hours. By the third hour, I need flats.
Nadja: 37:04
Yeah, I think for me, the most important things are the shoes. I cannot do uncomfortable shoes. I really try like the heels look so pretty. But after the pandemic, I think a lot of women really ditched the heels, which I love. Like now I think the general population won't wears sneakers or flats, but I never uh wear uncomfortable shoes anymore. That's just something. If my feet are uncomfortable, that's the only thing I can focus on. Um, or I cannot focus on anything else. Let's put it this way. Because it takes my whole mental space is is that. And women who wear shoes and they have blisters and bleeding feet, I'm like, how? I can't, I cannot even I like, yeah, it's physically impossible for me to do that because I will have taken the shoes off before. So yeah, good, good quality shoes and good good shoes.
Erin: 38:03
I've seen a lot of posts about autism and socks and how you wear socks. And I will be perfectly honest that I mostly don't wear socks to get around the fact that they are often not comfortable and they irritate my foot. So I have shoes that are just the puns that don't need them. So my my son now refers to he's like those with issues with socks might also find that this is a challenge.
Nadja: 38:36
And there's also, I mean, I talked to my partner about this, right? When you have socks and let's say you pay buy three pairs of the same socks, somehow once you start washing them and you wear some more than others, even though they're the same same socks, you have three pairs, six socks. I will lie them out after I wash them and pair them up again. Like there are differences, right? Right? You get me.
Erin: 39:07
Your husband does not understand them together. And I'm like, those not like like it's not just good enough to match the color, but you also have to match the wear level and yeah, yeah, totally there with you.
Nadja: 39:21
So yeah, and because there's like the good socks, right? So when you have the good socks, you go and you buy more pairs. So like there's not just three pairs of of socks unless they're not good or you couldn't find them anymore. So maybe I have like nine pairs, but still, like after every wash, like after doing the laundry, I will lay out the same and pair them up. And like, you know, it's kind of like a puzzle, like which one goes which. Yes. And once you wear them and you take them, like obviously, if you wear them a whole day, they go into the wash. But if you wear them shortly and you take them off and you put them back on, there's a left sock and there's a right sock. So you cannot like and also like saying about the socks, in 2010, I was in Cambodia for half a year uh for work and it was very hot. We we we were really like in the in the north uh of the country. There's no air conditioning, there was no running water, there was no electricity, or for the most part. And so I was wearing, you know, sandals for six months straight. I remember I had to put on, like when I flew back, I had to put on socks and my sneakers to go on the plane. Or that's what I did. And I was like, oh my god, these socks feel so weird. I haven't worn socks in six months, like six months without socks. And I'm like, oh, this like I had to get used to wearing socks again. It was such a weird feeling.
Erin: 40:54
Yeah, it very much is and we could jump into the whole spoons and forks and oh yeah, that's a whole that for me. I have a favorite spoon that I stole from my parents' house, but fortunately my children do not think that is the best spoon. Like they each have different favorite spoons. And we have a whole debate about which forks go in which slot in the drawer.
Nadja: 41:23
So this is now my new test for friendships, or just, you know, when I meet people, I I give them an option of spoons, or like I would say, oh, which spoons are you choosing? And they're like, Well, they're all the same. Oh no, okay. No. Not that it has like you can still be my friend, but I will know more about you if you have a favorite spoon.
Erin: 41:46
The only thing in there that I could think of would be trying to be polite and not take your favorite spoon when I was picking. But yes. And it's very funny to have these discussions about which one. I'm like, those are not good. Like there are forks that I actively dislike in our drawer that my kids actively prefer, which I find bizarre. I'm like, no, those are all wrong. Those are not the good ones.
Nadja: 42:12
I don't know how they ended up there. And see, so everybody watching our conversation about socks and spoons, you know why Erin and I are friends, because we're clearly on the same wavelength or the same thing. There's so much energy there.
Erin: 42:27
So we we we were up in Virginia. You came to the US for a well, it was supposed to be for one conference and ended up for something else. But so the first night we were there, um, I drove up with my oldest and we went out, the three of us went out to dinner at an Indian restaurant. And I love Indian food. It's very much home cooking for my extended family. And so we first off, Nadja looks at me and goes, Do you want to share? And I was like, Yes, I would love to share. That would be wonderful. Like my best friend and I always split food so we can get twice as much and have one less decision. So the food came, we ordered together, the food came, we sat down, we put it down, and I'm like, I took my first bite and I realized that I was doing this little happy dance in my chair. And I looked over, and Nadja's doing the same little happy dance in her chair, and I was like, Yeah, this is why.
Nadja: 43:23
Yes, yeah, that there's so much flavor and layers of that food, and that just makes me so happy.
Erin: 43:31
And so um, but also part of what was wonderful at saying was that all of those, like you said, there's all of that flavoring and layering, and people were just very comfortable being themselves and giving space. So that first saying, my oldest actually ended up going to breakouts the whole time instead of going off on doing the old young adult thing. And I had multiple people come up to me and tell me afterwards, oh, he asks such great questions. If I see him in there, I know it's going to be a great discussion. And so all of a sudden, going from public school where people are like, Would you just not raise your hand again to this place where people are like, Wonderful, you get to ask questions and people are excited about it. And I was like, it was such a difference. And it was so nice to see him find a space where he could relax into being himself and meet people that helped him learn more about himself. That was really amazing. And then I got to be friends with you.
Nadja: 44:40
And I think it's really such a special, it's very hard to describe, right? To put it into words, this feeling of walking into a room where suddenly you do not have to explain yourself. And you walk into a room and maybe I don't know if you can say it in this way, but you like I I don't consider myself part of a minority, but I am probably a neurodivergent minority. And so I go into this room and then I'm not the odd one out, if that makes sense.
Erin: 45:21
And as women in any profession to be taken seriously, especially in the sciences, which we've both been in those spaces, there is a um persona of calm intellectual logical, which we both are, but those spaces don't welcome the bubbly wiggle happy dance in your chair because of the food. Like I wouldn't feel free enough to do that if I were going to, you know, a uh scientific conference. I would have a ball, I would have people that I could talk to about all kinds of things, I would love it, but it's not the same. There is a limited number of facets of myself that they would see. And I think in SENG or in BloomCon, we are able to just show all of the facets whenever we feel like it. It's it's not and it's just accepted that that you can be bubbly and intelligent at the same time.
Nadja: 46:39
Yes. And nobody questions it. And you can be also bubbly pink, but you know, talk about your own mental health and how, you know, suicidal ideations and and talk about those topics where maybe the analogy of the Indian food with so much, you know, layering of flavors, like we just can bring out all of ourselves to these spaces. Whereas in the non-gifted spaces, I feel, or the non-twice exceptional spaces where I feel like, as you said, holding back. And I think summarizing my experience as a woman, um, maybe I always felt like it's because I am a woman or a strong woman that I would say, I I'm I'm making myself smaller, I'm holding back, but it's not just because I'm a woman, it's I'm a gifted woman, I'm a twice exceptional woman. And being called, I'm too much from a very young age. So you learn that being much is not the standard or that what you're aiming for. And now I'm I'm trying sometimes to be as much as I can.
Erin: 48:05
And this is kind of like my experience is that I was very sure of who I was as a child. Like I was I was in your face, I did not have a problem tilting at windmills when I thought something was unjust. I was I was all that. And then adolescence was a lot of like trying to figure out and fit into peer groups. And I was fortunate that I had a peer, like my closest friends were all top students and gifted. So that helped, but still, there's like, you know, do you know the right band? And the answer is I never do. And do you know how to do makeup? And I don't. My mom did not do makeup at all. Like she wore a poncho and hiking boots when I was in middle school, that which is as a middle schooler horrifying. But I've heard a lot of people say, as a neurodivergent, that they felt like an alien trying to fit in. And I did, but I attributed that to being in a different socioeconomic group than a lot of my peers were. There was middle class stuff that they knew about because their parents shared it that I didn't know about. And so making that like transition as a family meant, and I was the oldest, so I was the first one going through all of that, meant not knowing a lot of the rules. Looking back, it was probably also all of these other things. But then the beauty is as an adult, I feel like I have spent the rest of my adulthood like getting back to that kid that I was. And I gotta say, 50s are awesome. 40s were pretty good, but 50s are awesome in terms of just, you know, it's hard to tell in this color, but my my hair is purple. It's been purple since I turned 40. I wanted to do something, and then it wasn't until I was in my 50s that I got tattoos and, you know, just really sort of expanding into who I want to be and having the fortune of having family and a partner who welcome that, not just support, but encourage that, you know, is an amazing gift to have.
Nadja: 50:34
And I would like to take some time to talk about how you support your clients and what you offer in this space, because that's also why I invited you here. And we've been already talking for quite a while. But you are a coach and you also hosting these, you know, SENG groups. Do you want to share a little bit more of what you do?
Erin: 50:59
Briefly, the SENG groups, what I mentioned before were parent support groups. Now they are community groups. Well, SENG facilitators offer a lot of them. You can go to the SENG website and find them. Some of them are very specific, some are just generally gifted adults. I have them on my website, the ones that I'm offering with my co-facilitator, Emily Perks. And they're they're all virtual. We do them during daytime for the US so that European people can access them and not be up at three in the morning. And they're designed to give gifted people a chance to talk to other gifted people and sort of have their experiences normalized. And the hope is that after six weeks of meeting virtually, that people will make connections and continue those connections. And then for my one-on-one clients, the thing that I love about coaching is the assumption that all clients are naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. And that means that I'm not trying to fix anything. I'm here to bounce ideas off of. I like the description, it's an iterative process of experimentation. So you try something, it doesn't work exactly, we go back, we fix it. I work with ADHD people. They're not going to do some things. It's just not gonna happen some of the time. And we'll work that in. Like, why didn't it happen? There's lots of data there, but it's fine. So a lot of gifted people have been told they have potential. They should live up to their potential, they should do these great things, they should cure cancer, they should, should, should, should, should, should. And my questions are, what do you want? Like I wanted to be a parent. I didn't want to be a professor. I wanted to be a parent. Being a professor would have been cool, but like if this is the life that I wanted, how do I create that? And so I don't think people need to have these massive, big save the planet dreams. They can, and I'm happy to support that. But if your dream is to, you know, have a nice garden out back from your house, okay, let's work on that. It's up to you.
Nadja: 53:52
And what my clients also come to me is they have so many things and choosing is hard, right? And I think that's that's where the potential, but also the multi-potential, so that you could basically pick any path and you know you could be successful if you focus all your time and energy there. But then what is the priority? And that's something nobody else can answer for you. That's something you have to figure out yourself. But in a coaching space, that's that's where the room is at and where there is the space for such exploration.
Erin: 54:33
The other thing that I offer to my to my kids and to my clients is that you don't have to decide now what you're going to do for the rest of your life. You're looking at what you want to do for the next chapter. Maybe it's a short chapter, maybe it's a long chapter. I watched my parents totally switch careers when I was in high school and college. I'm now totally switching careers while my kids are in high school, my youngest is still in high school. I will probably then do something different again when I'm ready for retirement. Like there's wide open options, and you don't have to just pick one narrow thing that that's all you ever do. And when you look at gifted resumes, that's frequently what you see is like this deep dive into X, and then, you know, oh, I I did that, I'm done, I'm bored. I'm gonna go over here to like Q, something entirely different, unrelated. And I'm gonna start from scratch and I'm also gonna get a PhD in that. Um, or not, depending on the person, but um, yeah. So just giving people space to figure out what they already know about themselves and maybe reframe, shift perspective on some of the things that they made assumptions about and yeah, so that's what I do.
Nadja: 56:10
So yeah, if anybody listening resonated with who you are and what you're offering, do you want to say for listeners where they can find you or best connect with you? And we will link everything in the show notes so they can just click and find your website. Cool.
Erin: 56:30
The first thing I want to say is that this podcast is very much my like energy that I would have with Nadja. It is not my coaching energy. When I coach, my energy shouldn't be that involved. So I'm a little bit like there's more space for my client's energy instead of mine. Just to clarify that a little. The best place to find me is my website, which is mossandmaplecoaching.com. And it's all together and no dots and all of that.
Nadja: 57:09
And you offer also a discovery call for clients who would be interested in working with you so they can also book such a call with you to see if your coaching energy matches with them. And you said, right. Exactly.
Erin: 57:26
I offer a fairly long coaching call or discovery call because I verbally process, so I like other people to have some space to do that. And because I think that finding a person that you resonate with is really important when it comes to coaching. So I may have lots of information for you, but if my style doesn't fit you, then it's not useful, like find someone else. But yeah, that's certainly available.
Nadja: 57:57
And is there anything else you would like to share or say that something you wish you knew earlier or something you wish somebody has told you?
Erin: 58:08
The thing that I keep hearing in multiple different ways is that most neurodivergent types have at least some genetic component to them, which means the probability is that other people in your family are gonna have some overlapping things. And what that means is that when you're comparing how you do things to normal, the people around you, your family are often what you use as your mark for normal. So, well, I mean, yeah, they started talking early, but so did their cousins, and so did my friends' kids. Well, yeah, because they're all gifted. Or, you know, we we tend to flock both as families and as friend groups with people who are similar. And so that skews your sense of what is normal if your whole group is not in the neuromajority. And so when you start answering questions that most of the questionnaires about any of these, ADHD, autism, giftedness, all ask, like, is this happening more than normal or more than you would expect for this age? And you're like, seems perfectly normal to me. So I think that's one of the places that it's hard to make an assessment confidently for yourself. And that's one of the times when talking with somebody who's more experienced in the field can help provide some perspective button. Yeah.
Nadja: 01:00:00
Thank you so much, Erin, for being here, for sharing and for just being, you know, authentic and vulnerable and just, you know, your bubbly self today. And if you as a listener enjoyed this episode, then please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening. And you can also obviously leave a review. I would really appreciate that. And I see you next time. So bye. I hope you enjoyed this episode and you learned something new. And if you did, please like, subscribe, and leave a review. And if you feel like somebody else that you know could profit from this, please send them a link to this show. And if you want to learn more, you find everything at giftedunleash.com. And you can also subscribe to the newsletter there. So you will always be up to date for new things that are coming. And all the information that we mentioned today will be on the show notes for the episode. So everything is right there for you. And with that said, I wish you a wonderful day, and I see you next time. Bye.