53. Finding Your People: Friendship, Belonging, and Authentic Connection as a Gifted Adult - Meet Dr. Erin Krellwitz
Gifted adults often carry a private loneliness: the sense of being out of step, misunderstood, or somehow “too much” for the spaces around them. In this conversation with returning guest Dr. Erin Krellwitz, we explore why friendship and connection can feel especially complex for gifted and twice-exceptional adults. Together, we unpack the realities of masking, self-editing, and learning early on which parts of yourself feel safe to show. Erin reflects on how many gifted people become skilled at toning themselves down to avoid standing out, creating smoother interactions on the surface while making authentic connection much harder underneath.
A major theme in this episode is what happens when gifted adults finally encounter spaces where they do not have to shrink. Nadja and Erin share their experiences at gifted gatherings like the SENG conference and BloomCon, where intensity, curiosity, emotional depth, humor, and visible enthusiasm are not merely tolerated but welcomed. They describe the relief of being in rooms where you do not have to explain yourself first, where your questions are encouraged, your excitement makes sense, and your full self can show up without being filtered. That kind of recognition is not only validating; it can feel deeply regulating to the nervous system and profoundly healing after years of feeling out of place.
We also get practical about friendship itself. Friendship is often treated as less structured or less important than romantic relationships, yet it forms the foundation of belonging for so many gifted adults. Erin and Nadja reflect on how to begin making connections, especially if social anxiety, introversion, or past experiences of rejection make reaching out difficult. They talk about using shared interests as entry points, keeping a few easy questions in your back pocket, and remembering that not every meaningful conversation needs to become a lifelong friendship. Sometimes connection begins with something as simple as asking about a pet, a fidget, or what someone is genuinely excited about.
Another important thread is values. Rather than searching for perfect people, Erin invites us to think about what truly matters in our relationships: humor, curiosity, playfulness, authenticity, humility, emotional safety, or a shared willingness to be real. Not every friend needs to match every part of you, and not every friendship will look the same. Some friendships are built on frequent contact, while others can go quiet for months and return without strain. Some people mirror your intensity closely, while others simply make enough room for it. The deeper question is not whether someone is exactly like you, but whether you feel more like yourself around them.
This episode is ultimately an invitation to believe that real connection is possible. The gifted population may be small, but there are more like-minded people in the world than we sometimes dare to hope — and technology has made it possible to find them across cities, countries, and continents. Erin shares how her coaching and SENG community groups help gifted adults find those first points of contact, and both she and Nadja encourage listeners to begin where they are: with vulnerability, discernment, curiosity, and the courage to let themselves be seen. Friendship may not always come easily, but it becomes far more possible when you stop performing belonging and start building it from a place of authenticity.
About Dr. Erin Krellwitz
Dr. Erin Krellwitz is a coach for neurodivergent individuals and the founder of Moss and Maple Coaching. With a background in science, education, and giftedness, she supports clients in understanding their wiring, honoring their complexity, and building lives that fit who they really are. She also facilitates SENG Community Groups, creating spaces where gifted and twice-exceptional adults can feel seen, understood, and less alone.
Would you like to work with me 1:1 as your gifted and 2e coach? Please send me an email at hello@giftedunleashed.com or find more information about my coaching offer on my website giftedunleashe.com/coaching
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
Dr. Erin Krellwitz / Moss and Maple Coaching
Erin’s coaching work and additional resources: mossandmaplecoaching.com
SENG Community Groups facilitated by Erin Krellwitz
A supportive entry point for gifted adults looking for connection and community: mossandmaplecoaching.com/support-groups/
SENG – Supporting Emotional Needs of the Gifted
Including SENG Community Groups for gifted and twice-exceptional adults: sengifted.org
Paula Prober
Mentioned in relation to gifted loneliness, belonging, and emotional recognition: rainforestmind.com
BloomCon
Community space discussed in the episode: brightinsight.support
GiftedUnleashed
The space for gifted and twice-exceptional women: GiftedUnleashed.com
TRANSCRIPT:
Nadja 0:58
Hello and welcome to Gifted Unleashed, where we talk about the gifted and twice-exceptional brain and how it affects our thinking and experience of the world differently. There are a lot of stereotypes and stigma around the term giftedness, and I'm here to challenge those. I'm here to raise awareness and to have a conversation around the topic of what it means to be a gifted and twice-exceptional adult. A common experience among gifted folks is that they feel out of place. They don't quite fit in. They're too sensitive, too intense, too emotional, too overexcitable, and too deep thinkers of the world and about themselves. So if you have been called too much of about anything, this show is for you. I'm Nadia, I'm too loud, too colorful, too bobbly, too bossy, and I love to talk too much. So welcome to my world. I'm so happy you're here. Hello and welcome everybody. Today we have another amazing episode of the podcast Gifted Unleashed. And we have Dr. Erin Krellwitz again with us today, who is back for this episode where we talk about friendships and fostering connections as a gifted adult. I thought she would be the perfect person to invite for a conversation about this topic because we have been friends the last two years, a little bit more than two years, and we thought this was a very important topic to talk about. So welcome, Erin. I'm glad to be here again. I'm excited to talk to you. Yeah, I'm so excited. And just to really dive right in, why do you believe that, you know, talking about friendships is such an important topic in the space of giftedness?
Erin 2:39
So I mean, I think there are a couple parts there. The first is that I don't think we talk about friendship in the ways that people talk about, you know, how to have a romantic relationship. There's there's lots of things you can find about how you should do that. Friendship is a little less defined a lot of the time. And a lot of people are left not really knowing where they stand, what's going on, how they should be doing it. And I think that that's true for many people. And then you add giftedness in, and it becomes hard to find people that will effectively mirror you and be able to see all of the complexities that you're bringing into the relationship. And in my opinion, if you want a really good romantic relationship, you need a foundation of friendship as well. If you want that to last many, many years. I've been married a long time.
Masking, Safety, And Being “Too Much”
Nadja 3:42
Yeah, and and as you said, like friendships is not just between, you know, platonic friends, but also in a romantic relationship. But it all starts in the beginning making these initial connections. And I think a lot of gifted adults struggle to to even start with with these first steps of how do I make these connections. And you and I met at the Sang conference in 2023, and the second time we both went in 2024, Paula Prober was the keynote speaker, and she really gave an amazing talk. And I think all of us in the audience were crying, we had goose palms, like it was so we felt so seen. And what I remember like what she was talking about was the feeling of loneliness in the gifted community, and this feeling of being misunderstood. And probably this feeling of being misunderstood holds people back to kind of open up to to make these then initial connections. Probably we all were gifted kids, right? Gifted kids grow into gifted adults, and when you already have these experiences of of of rejection, probably, or not fitting in.
Erin 5:15
And I think a lot of most gifted adults have learned some level of masking. Because it's pretty common for the occasional person to feel really threatened by a gifted person. If they say they're gifted, if they talk in a way that's too smart or too like this gets even worse if you're in a marginalized community, because oftentimes you are accused of trying to fit into the dominant community. So learning how to kind of hide parts of yourself to smooth the waters, to not get your boss upset, to not get your teacher upset, to not draw attention from peers starts early and makes authentic connection harder.
Nadja 6:08
So what you're saying is the gifted person is usually a complex individual, has many sides, many parts of ourselves, but we learn to hide some of those parts, and we know we can learn or understand which parts we can show in which interactions, but most of the time it's not safe to show all our parts or to show one part, like the full extent of it, the full complexity of the full volume. The full volume. Exactly. We have to we learn to tone it down.
Finding Belonging At SENG And Beyond
Erin 6:47
Yeah. I think that that for me was that first saying conference that we went to, the thing I remember the most, besides meeting you, was that my oldest went with me, and we were suddenly in a place where raising your hand and asking a question at the end of a talk was not just tolerated, but was like encouraged and people were excited, and it was such a like, oh, I can just be curious. And I was not fully like, I was not all of me at that first conference because I didn't know people and I was like just being a little reserved. By the second one, you and I had had more of a basis, and there were other people there that I knew who would be authentically themselves in very large ways that I could be a little bit more of this. And then this summer at BloomCon, it was like all out, like everything. You know, it's the kind of things I think the one of the best examples is when you and I went out for dinner one night, and and it was the first night, I mean, we hadn't seen each other in a year. And we went out to dinner and we sat next to each other and we agreed we were going to share food because we're both excited about the food. And the first bite came and I did this little happy dance because it was really good food. And I realized out of the corner of my eye, you were doing the same little happy dance. And in most professional settings, that would not be appropriate. No, you don't do happy dances when you You don't do happy dances because the food is good. And and I can do all of those professional things when I need to, but it's tiring and it's not authentic in the same way. So having friends that accept that I'm gonna do those things, that I'm excited, and you know, I went to get my second tattoo ever, and I was very excited about it. And you have to sit still for a long time. And so while I was waiting for her to get set up, I had like all of my fidgets. Plus, I was just standing there bouncing, just bouncing because I was very excited and I knew I had to get all of that energy out. And I was there with my partner and my best friend, and they just sort of smiled at me, like they know me. They know that I've just got to get that out for a little while because I was gonna sit still. And I knew it was a neurodivergent safe space with that tattoo artist. So I could let that all go and not pretend that I could sit still in that moment.
Nadja 9:34
I I think that's something very interesting that you say, right? That you feel comfortable enough to just be you. And I would even go a step further because you said, and I just gonna nitpick on the words, like the gifted people do. And you say, when it's accepted, you know, all of your parts or these parts of like making a happy dance. And I would even say if it's even celebrated, you know? Yes. I mean, that's the ideal.
Erin 10:01
That's the ideal. But I think also, like I have close friends who would never do a happy dance, they just wouldn't. But they don't edit my behavior in any way. It's it's that level of we may be different, and that's fine. We're still friends.
Outgoing Vs Introverted: Starting Conversations
Nadja 10:24
Yeah. And I I would like to share my experience of the first ever Sang conference. And for the listeners, we will put all the links in the show notes, uh, saying the supporting the emotional needs of the gifted, their annual conference that we attended. The first time in 2023 that I attended, I was not in a mentally good place. And my partner was like, why don't you go and you know, try to meet people and go to a meetup of a gifted community? And that's why I went. And I don't think anybody like told me. So for me, it was really like this this feeling that I instantly got walking into this room, and I didn't have to explain myself to anybody, and I was just accepted the way I was, and I could show up my giggly self, I could show up my smart self, but I also could show up, you know, there's a lot of people that are way smarter than me, so you can still like ask curious question, and there's no dumb questions, so you can just be all of these things, and you can be yeah, girly and smart, bubbly and yeah, loving pink, but that is never the question, are you a serious person? And I think just knowing that the other people in this room were also these complex human beings that had so many parts of them, and I'm curious about them and they're curious about me, but without I felt at the time there wasn't any judgment, and that was my first ever experience in such a setting, and that was kind of like very emotional, I must say. I was very emotional the first time I was there. I was like, I didn't know what was going on, but it was very healing, and I met you, I met other people, but I also need to state that I am a very outgoing person, and I had learned very early in my life to be the new kid, to be by myself, going into a new space and introducing myself and making kind of connections. So I had these tools or I was able to overcome maybe my own shyness. And so for me, it wasn't so difficult to get into interactions with others. But I as we then talked, right, later on, we also understand that not everybody that shows up in these spaces has those outgoing tools or personalities and might need a little bit of support. How to start such conversations.
Lone Threads Vs One Big Friend Group
Erin 13:20
For me, until recently, I would have said that I was very introverted. And as a kid, I was pretty shy and not comfortable. And I found even in grad school, my husband went with me to a science conference, and he was shocked because in that environment, it gets easy to start conversations because you just ask people about their research and they will talk, and then you're like, oh, and what about this? And they're like, oh, that's what I'm doing next. And everybody gets excited about the science. And it's easy to talk to strangers. And I felt like that was my job was to go up and talk to and start making connections in this field. And so I found a saying, I didn't go by myself. I managed to talk my oldest into going with me. So I had an emotional support person with me. And I had that as like a buffer for not feeling totally uncomfortable. The second year we went, there was somebody who came and kept introducing her partner as this is my emotional support husband. And he was like, Hi, I'm here. I'm just here for her. And and he really was in a lot of ways just a comforting anchor point for her to then let all of her excitabilities fly. And, you know, that kind of acceptance and support, you know, ours partners both sending us off to go do this and then really being excited about it. And then the second year, my whole family was there, but they didn't all come to the conference, but they came and hung out and met people afterwards. And that was great. And I know your partner was going to do that this year with before all of the plans changed. But I think you're right that getting over that social anxiety about walking up to strangers and making small talk is hard. And I think the second year we were there, because we knew that, and we knew that we had been welcomed, like we had people who would just come up and talk to us, that we both spent time reaching out to people we didn't recognize and introducing ourselves and trying to bring them in and make them feel welcome. And then this year at BloomCon, it was much, much smaller. So it was easier to make those connections with everybody there and talk. But doing that in the wild is a lot harder.
Nadja 15:51
It is. And you know, funnily enough, you said like when you worked in the academic setting and you talk to scientists, and most of my professional life I have spent surrounded by scientists that worked in academia as well. And so now I laugh about it. I thought I was good at small talk because I just go right to the point and talk about science, and I thought that's small talk. Now retrospectively, there were settings that were not, you know, in the academic settings where this did not go well. And I just thought it was just, you know, this one instance. And now I'm like, oh, I was also a little bit lucky in a sense that I chose to work in the academic setting for a reason and only retrospectively. I'm like, oh, because they're like like-minded, kind of similarly wired most of the time. Not all of them, but most of them, like we tend to agglomerate in certain spaces. They're flocked together. Yeah, definitely. And that brings me to my next point, is also like growing up, you know, watching TV or hearing stories of other girls, young women who had these, you know, friends circle. They had a group of friends that they would hang out with. And I had individual friends, but they would not hang out with each other. And when I tried to bring them together at like say my own birthday party, they would all stay separate and wouldn't really mingle. So I tried to kind of like put them all together, but that never stuck. So I had all these, and I still have friends that I meet up individually mostly, or you know, two two friends here and there, but it's not one big friend circle. It's more yeah, I have friends that are more disconnected from each other. And that's also something that later on looking back makes more sense. And now I most of them are neurodivergent.
Self-Acceptance, Age, And Social Ease
Erin 18:07
So through school, I moved schools quite a bit. And I was moving yet again between seventh and eighth grade and all within the same area. And I called to talk to a best friend who was gonna be at the new school. I was so happy that I was not gonna be alone. She was already my friend. And she's like, Oh, I think you're moving in next door to my friend. And I was like, Wait, what's her full name? And she told me, I was like, that was my best friend from before I went to the school where I met you. They were already friends. So after years of like piecing together friendship, like having to start over again because I was at a new school for the for eighth grade and then from my high school, I had this friend group that I fell into because they were already, like they were already my individual friends and they had made friends. So that I lucked out in. And I watched my sister not have that. Like she just didn't click with the kids who were in the gifted programs at all. And I mean, she has a couple really close friends, but it was always a little bit of a struggle. In looking back, I was jealous of her because she's really good at being outgoing with strangers. And like she was the kind of person who could go to a concert and couch surf with randos. I mean, just anybody. She'd meet people, she'd get right, like all of that stuff. And I was like, oh no, no, no, I don't know these people. And now I've gotten to a point of comfort in just talking to strangers, you know, people in the grocery store. I had an hour-long discussion with a woman I met at the gym. I was done with my workout. She was waiting for someone we got talking, and she was fascinating. And I think being more comfortable in my own skin, in who I am, has made me care less about what other people think about me. And that makes me much more able to make friends. Oh, I love that.
Nadja 20:13
Yes, I can highly agree. And I think also age for me, it was age. So I hit 40 and I'm like, yes, I love this. 40 is the the time when you even give less of the Fs.
Erin 20:29
Oh, 50s are better.
Nadja 20:31
Oh, okay. I'm I'm looking forward to the 50s.
Erin 20:34
Yeah.
Nadja 20:34
But I remember even being 30 of like, I don't want to be 20 again. Like people, you know, they're they're crying over their youth, and or I wish, you know, I had all of the knowledge I have now when I was younger, telling my younger self, but yeah, that's life. Like you learn and you get older and wiser, and it makes you stronger. And the self-confidence is is real, of like, yeah, I don't need to, you know, make my hair and makeup to go to the grocery stores like I used to.
Interests, Local Culture, And Finding Your People
Erin 21:10
That was actually an experience I had in high school that was really useful because I was worried, like I said, I had moved, I went to three different schools for middle school. And that's a horrible time to be switching. Never felt like I really understood what the rules of those social spaces were anyway. And there's probably about seven different reasons for that, not just neurodivergence. I think some of it was also socioeconomic stuff. It was that my parents weren't from the area that we were living in. I mean, it was all the US, but the social norms were not something I could rely on my parents to know. So I was always just a little uncomfortable about social stuff. And when I was in, I don't remember what grade, it was sometime in high school in the summer. My mom was doing an internship away from home, and there was a camp for kids that were interested in ecology, which at the time that was my intent, was what I wanted to go into. So she was like, well, come and do this. And I was like, I don't like the social aspect of going and staying overnight with strangers was not encouraging. But she had a little cabin there of her own. She's like, go hang out with them. If you don't like it, you can always just come and stay with me. So I had this backup plan and I didn't know any of these people, and I would never see them again. And all of a sudden, I could just relax and be me and be enthusiastic about what I was enthusiastic about. And as it turned out, they also were enthusiastic about these things. But that was the first time I realized that the more I cared about the outcome, and the harder I tried to hang on and control the outcome, the less smooth. It went. And the more I kind of let go of I don't care what people think of me here, the easier it was.
Nadja 23:03
Yeah. I had very disencouraging experiences as a child in primary and middle school. I had some friends. I mean, primary school, okay, middle school. When I was like between 12 and 16, I wanted to be part, you know, of the cool kids club. Didn't really fit in, tried very hard. Had one friend that I thought, you know, I can trust, and I shared my secrets, you know, the ones you have as a teenager. And when there were more people around us, she would spill my my secrets or things I I shared with her in confidence. So it made me trust people less to a sense. But I am also, I think I'm actually a little bit bad at masking. I think I I also kind of just did me and sometimes was even oblivious that it wasn't a social norm. I was just quirky. And my stepdad was really encouraging me to be different. Like he always said, it's okay to say no, for example, to drugs and alcohol. Like if it's offered to you, you can say no. You don't need to be cool. You can say no. And so this translated also in other situations where you didn't have to do what everybody else was doing, you could say no and be an outsider and still be cool. Like this is what I got taught. And so I I kind of embraced a little bit being the rebel, but it wasn't until maybe 16 when it was so our school system is is a little bit different. But when you go to want to go to university at 16, you you take a different track and you get reshuffled again with with the people you're in school. And again, those are then the kids with the best or better grades to go to university. And those were the friendships that to this day I still have. But the ones I made prior, I'm not in contact with anybody from that time period.
Giftedness Without Gatekeeping
Erin 25:14
Yeah, it's been interesting to watch my kids because we haven't moved. They went to the same elementary schools, they went to the same middle schools, high school got a little different, but watching them have friends that, you know, have been good friends since second grade, since third grade. And even though they're at different schools, they're still tight with those friends has been just a really different experience than what I had in a lot of ways. I see them being much more open with their friends than I was at comfortable with at that age. I think talking more broadly, finding friendships that span different parts of you is a little bit harder when you have very disparate interests. So, like I have a couple, I have three really, really close friends, all gifted, all neurodivergent, no doubt about that. But I like to sew. And none of them sew. One of them does some crafting, but not not a lot. So that's not a part that I can like they appreciate it. They're they're like, oh, did you make that? But it's not somebody I can geek out with about that. And then when I'm in a sewing space, I sort of feel like, I don't know, I always feel a little like I'm not really being myself there. So I think that finding spaces where you can get into your interests and be yourself can be a little challenging at times. Like you find one or two people, maybe. And I live in an area with a statistically unusual number of gifted people. Like we have two, three major universities and I don't even remember how many small colleges within 45 minutes of each other. And then there's research and development for a bunch of companies here as well. So we've we've drawn in a lot of people who are gifted in many different ways to this area. So, you know, having a PhD is like, oh, yeah, and so does everybody. But if you're not in an area like this, like stumbling upon people who will get how your brain works, how your humor works, that's a big one for me. It's hard. It's really hard.
Nadja 27:45
It's really hard. And especially, you know, both of us, we went to grad school. I did a master's, you did a PhD. So even for me, not having a PhD is still a little bit a sore spot. We're not gonna go into this today, but just saying there are a lot of people and gifted adults that we also met that then in confidence tells you, I didn't go to university. And if you didn't go to university where and we're not saying university is the gifted spot or the gifted places, but there are, as you said, statistically more gifted people out there than in their general population-ish. So you finding somebody that connects with you on your interest is higher than if you didn't go to university and you didn't make these connections in high school, and you are an adult working a job where you might not be surrounded by somebody else that's gifted and you never kind of like the opportunity of of meeting them is smaller. And so they their struggle even more finding connection. And then there's this like, well, I didn't go to uni, am I even, am I even gifted?
Community Groups That Feel Like Home
Erin 29:05
Can I even call myself gifted? I think it's important, it's not just fair, it's important to point out that academic success is not an indication of giftedness or not giftedness. I think if you're in really creative spaces, that may also like that's not really my space. Like I lean towards the science side of things, but that really creative space probably also has a higher than average number of gifted people who just are gifted in different ways. Like they're probably not going to do math or science, they're going to do music and art in other ways. And I think it's important for self-identification to recognize that there are different ways of being gifted, different experiences of being gifted. And that's why I think it's very important not to gatekeep giftedness in any way. And it's challenging because you do occasionally get people who are, oh, I'm gifted, and they really aren't. And it's like, how do you tell somebody that, like, hmm, I'm not sure you're as gifted as you think you are?
Nadja 30:22
And just for the people listening, the more you struggle accepting you're gifted, then the higher the chances you probably are. So if you're listening and you're still doubting if you're in the right space, but you can kind of connect with what we're saying, then you're in the right space. Yeah. So, and even if somebody says they're gifted that might not be gifted, I mean, what's the harm? They might just not get as much out of this space. Yeah. They're still welcome. Yeah.
Erin 30:50
And I assume that there are people who are gifted and it doesn't present in ways I'm used to seeing for a whole host of reasons. And, you know, I think finding a place where you feel like people will understand you is amazingly important. You know, we've both done the Sang facilitator training for the community groups.
Nadja 31:17
Yes.
Erin 31:18
And the point of that Sang has for the community groups is to help gifted people find each other and then have a space that has some facilitators to kind of ease that process of getting to know each other. And I have had, I think the group, the second group that you sat in on, we had one person who just started, like, she was like, sorry, I cry a lot because she was really feeling seen in the first. I mean, we we were doing introductions, like it was early. And she was just like, I really feel like I'm in the right space. And somebody else burst into tears because she was like, it was just this very emotional very quickly. And I I've had other sessions that went like that where, you know, we set up and do the like basics for how we're going to work as a group. And people are like, I feel seen that you even talked about different forms of communicating or different styles of communicating. Because they're like, nobody's ever done that before for me.
Nadja 32:23
And there's two things I want to add. First of all, yes, you're doing amazing saying community groups. And I will obviously link in the show notes your webpage where people can sign up. If this is something somebody's listening and feels like, I want more connections, where do I even start? These community groups are really a first step to making connections. And the second that I want to say is that, you know, we're very cognitive people, right? We we understand, we analyze, but being in this gifted space, it was very emotional for me and a lot with my nervous system and things that I never experienced, kind of like it regulates my whole being. And even now, like coming into this conversation today with you, I am currently still tired. There's still a lot going on on my end, but I know because of experience, coming in this conversation, just even though it's virtually, you're on the other side of the Atlantic. Long way away. It right, like I'm I feel grounded, I feel like I'm regulated, I feel like I'm going off of this call much more energized and feeling better just having this conversation with you. And this is some something you cannot really explain.
Energy Management And Nervous System Regulation
Erin 33:51
It's, you know, I I tend to get overwhelmed in large groups. It's too many people, too much noise, too much, just too much of everything. And had an experience a couple weeks ago where I was out in groups three days running, which is very unusual because I work from home, and came out of that weekend feeling energized. And my coach was like, Well, what was different about this set of experiences? And there were a couple parts. There was that I did rest between things. So I wasn't 24-7 or anything. I took time to recalibrate. But the biggest difference was I was in large groups where I could relax and I wasn't worried about trying to fit in. I felt like I already belonged. And I mean, one of those days I went by myself. It was a big like marketplace of booths and food trucks and stuff. I think I saw one person I knew and chatted with another person I knew the whole afternoon. Mostly I just sat and either chatted with people who were selling stuff there or just sat and watched people. And a lot of times that would lead to me feeling very self-conscious and out of step with the group and feeling like a little disconcerted because of that. But instead, I felt like I very much belonged there. And it was a very different experience. And the next, you know, the next day I was ready to work and I had lots of energy, which is instead of feeling kind of hung over. So I think that that that that regulating and matching, you know, you and I, when we get on the phone, tend to like imp up and get more and more excited because we're both, we have that piece, we have very similar pieces of excitabilities that do that, but it's not in a way that's frantic. It's very like it just it's very expressive, but comfortable, if that makes sense. For us. For us, yes. Other people may be like, oh, that's a whole lot. I don't need all of that in my life.
Nadja 36:12
And what you're saying is, yeah, it resonates. And I also want to add, I think on this journey of my, you know, gifted discovery that started, well, five and a half years ago, I learned so much about myself. And like a lot of gifted adults who discover that this is more than just something that is used for schooling or academia, that it it it affects your whole being. And then also looking, you know, back of oh, now, you know, my life makes much more sense, and that's why I made these decisions, or this is why I click with certain people. But then also going forward, being aware of the energy management, also going into perimenopause, you know, I feel like I don't have as much energy 24-7 as I used to have. So learning about okay, if I have a social event, something happening that one day, is there enough time to recuperate until the next thing that I'm doing? And also asking myself, do I really want these many social activities? Which ones are really important for me, which ones energize me? Some usually a lot of people, you know, if you go into the holidays, right? Now you meet family, you know, some family members and topics can be triggering. How do you manage? So self-management, energy management, like yoga was a game changer for me. So I learned more techniques for myself, but also in relation to other people. Like, yeah, you and I kind of you have like having this mirroring and having these energies fly. I wouldn't say sparks flying, but you know, like there's an like there's an exchange of energies, and that kind of is also healing, exhilarating. But I learn a lot about myself through my relationship and friendship with you.
Values Over Traits In Choosing Friends
Erin 38:14
Yes. And I think recognizing that I have friendships where I don't think about what I'm gonna text somebody, I just send the text, and it might include some very large words or some really random information or any of those things. Then when I go to text somebody new that I don't know, all of a sudden I'm recognizing that do I want to edit this or not? And doing that intentionally instead of sort of reactively has made a big difference. Like I think we mentioned before the being able to share humor. So having friends that I can joke about something with, you know, Greek mythology references or and and they don't like look at me funny or make puns, or like I don't know if you've seen the lists of like there's there's the standard love languages, and then there's ones that people have written up for for neurodivergent folks. And oh no, don't care. One of them is here, I found this article I think you would be interested in. Oh, isn't that what they call pebbling? Well, pebbling, I would qualify pebbling as smaller, like there's like I will do research for you, or I know this is your topic of interest, and here's something you might be interested in. I think of pebbling more in terms of like memes, short posts, things like that that are like, here's something funny, I'm thinking about you.
Nadja 39:50
I do that also. Yeah, the articles are in just a bigger rock.
Erin 39:55
It is. Well, but I've also offered to a friend who was just feeling very overwhelmed about something, but not one to make a decision without doing thorough research. I was like, I have time. This isn't hard for me. Why don't I do the research and summarize it? I will give you citations if you need them, but let me summarize regression analysis. I I did not do the regression analysis because I avoid statistics whenever possible. But I did offer her like all of that information in a way that allowed like in the same way that I was taught to bring casseroles to people when they're having a rough time. Oh, like, you need help here. This I can do. Yeah. And I I what was some of the other ones on that list? Um, parallel play, just sitting and being near someone while you do your own thing without the expectation that they need to participate. I think there was might have also been in there something about like doing errands and household stuff like next to each other or with each other, so that you had time together with low angst. We're not trying to like have the best time ever. We're like, yeah, we're just gonna, you know, hang out. I gotta go run this errand. And I have found that those moments are really solidify friendships. Like I have some friends that were part of a group. We were all online together through COVID. And I didn't know all of them very well before that, but we were kind of providing weekly support because it was a weird time. And since then, some of those friendships have really gotten a lot deeper because I will do things like throw in the text. I have to go shopping for clothes, which I hate doing. Does anybody have an afternoon free this week? And one of them was like, yes, I do. And it was so much more fun and much less overwhelming, like all of those choices and textures and so many things. And I think that being vulnerable, saying, I could use help with this, or I could use company while I do this, is anybody on board, really helps add to that foundation that a friendship is built on.
Neurodivergent Love Languages And Pebbling
Nadja 42:21
So we did the workshop multiple times, but we as we identified that you know, fostering such connections and then really building from first you have to have a connection to then build a friendship. And so that it can be fast, but it can also be slower. And we proposed this to host it at Sang, and then when it got reshuffled or postponed, we we then offered to do it at Bloomcom and we have offered it also online. So you and I we we facilitated this workshop where we talk about fostering connections and and building friendships. And do you want to talk a little bit just like a little bit what we what we do and what what's something somebody could take away from that?
Erin 43:15
I think the thing to me that is the biggest takeaway for individuals. Like I hope people meet each other when they come to these things so that you know they can be like, we met at that thing. So I hope that that happens. But what I really want people to, everyone to walk away with is beginning to think about what they value in a relationship, what matters to them individually, you know, because that is not going to be the same for each individual, and it's gonna be different in each relationship because it takes two of you. So for me, humor is really important. I I don't think that I could be friends with somebody who had who didn't have a sense of humor or didn't have one that was had enough points of connection with me. Now, there are people in my life who are very close who have some points of connection on their humor, and other places where we just don't get it. Like the other person is like, I don't see why this is funny, and I'm like rolling. So it doesn't have to be a perfect connection, but I need that sense of humor, and I need a sense of play, which is in my mind tied into the humor, but a willingness to play with ideas, play with toys. Like I like Legos and puzzles, and I like wordplay, and it's more of a mindset for me than just you know, a specific example. But that ability to play is very important to me. And I assume that there are other people out there who that is just not important to them. And we might be really good acquaintances, but we're probably not going to be super tight friends. And it's helpful when there's similarities in background in some way so that like the reference points can be a little easier to understand. But I mean, we don't have shared a lot of shared background and it's worked just fine. Um, I'm trying to think of what other ones would be. For me, playfulness, humor, curiosity, humility. I really don't do well with people who are truly prideful. Like I think, and that's one that I want to be real careful with because being can called arrogant is pretty common for gifted people and often inaccurate. And a lot of the people who are being called arrogant are actually have a pretty humble view of themselves. And so I don't want like false modesty. I that bugs me just as much, but just a false assessment of who you are and authenticity. Like authenticity is important to me. Um so those are all things that are important to me. They may or may not be important to someone else, you know. I don't care about the gender of my friends, but I think that that shared background means that it's a lot easier for me to connect with people who have been raised female just because there's a cultural difference there. It doesn't mean it's absolute. I mean my partner is not, and and we are very like he is one of my best friends. But it's just it's a cultural difference, and I think it takes more communication to get past that. So, you know, I don't I don't care about age, I don't care about socioeconomic background, but again, I would say that many times we all flock together without even knowing it.
From Workshops To Practical Tools
Nadja 47:06
Um I highly agree, and I think we have a lot of the same shared values for me. It's also yeah, play joy, but also kind of like being able to laugh. Like don't take it too seriously. Somebody who doesn't, yeah, doesn't take themselves too seriously. Like I can laugh about myself. Like this is something just have to be able to do, otherwise it's not gonna work. No, and I know like uh yeah, I I I laugh about myself. Um but yeah, sharing laughter is I guess a big bond and the humor, but that's also something, as you said, like really reflecting what is important for me, for example. It's not important that I get to be in the physical same space as my friends, like you, right? You are across the pond, but we we meet virtually, we meet once a year, hopefully next time again. Yeah. Um, but they're people that value, you know, having a very regular connection. For me, it's kind of like I have friends that I see like a couple of times a year. And when we meet, it's like no time has passed, and we spend a few hours together, and then we don't see and hear each other for a while, and then we just reconnect because everybody's busy, and so not having this pressure of I need to check in with you every single week so that the friendship doesn't die out. But that is for me uh how I like my friendship. But as you said, it's very important for people to really hone in what is important before they go and start making these connections. But yeah.
Erin 48:54
I I was gonna say, I think having that sense not only works well for friendships, but also works well for romantic relationships. Like having an idea of what matters to you in the people in your life and what are non-negotiables, like you will not accept X, Y, Z. These are things that you prefer, and these are things that you just don't, whatever.
Nadja 49:20
It's fine. I'm smiling because I also there's another point, like not being so literal. And I have gotten this tip from my mentor who told me, you know, also in a romantic relationship, we have high standards for ourselves. It might not be a hundred percent perfect match. If you are 80% matching, that is okay. Um, and I'm telling you this because there was this instance, and I'm sharing this publicly, because I also like my my partner and I, we laugh about it because I I I told him later on. So basically, uh my partner and I we had a conversation where I was looking and I was looking outside the window, looking at the stars. It was night. And I said to him, you know, the universe is so fascinating, you know, like the size, and I just made that statement and he just passed and was like, Oh, I don't care so much about the universe or something like that. And I was like, What? What did you just say? And I was like, Do I have to rethink my whole relationship with this person because he doesn't find the universe fascinating? And so, like, yeah, I think he like we had a conversation, I think um, he's still fascinated about parts of the universe, but just saying that just one statement from one person shouldn't be the reason why you question the whole friendship. That that's just also something to add.
Boundaries, Forgiveness, And Imperfection
Erin 50:58
I think having space for forgiveness for saying imperfection. Well, none of us are perfect. I am not going to remember your birthday. I am not. I barely remember my own birthday. It's not gonna happen. And I apologize up front if that's important to you, but I I'm I'm gonna miss it.
Nadja 51:19
I would think about your birthday, but I won't text you that day because I have ADHD, so I will text you probably three days later, even though I thought about your birthday all day long.
Erin 51:28
I have had it on my calendar where I thought all week missed the day because I forgot what not that I forgot that that day was their birthday, I forgot what day that was. Like I was like, oh, I thought today was Saturday and it's Sunday. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's like where I really emphasize the values instead of the details. So like that idea about like being fascinated with the galaxy is really about being curious, thinking about things. And you want somebody who is curious enough to be interested in stuff and in learning stuff. And maybe that's not the universe, maybe it's something else. And I think that that's that's where the whole idea of looking at values instead of characteristics, I guess, is kind of where I would say that that that helps that. And it lets you take a step back and look at a relationship, friendship, romantic, whatever kind of relationship, family relationships, and say, these are the things that matter to me. These are things that I am not okay with. And our interactions are like, first off, I need to look at that and say, I don't like how this feels. I am not getting these needs met, and these boundaries are getting trampled on. So I need to act on those boundaries and say, I am not willing to be around somebody who does this. If you continue to do this, I'm gonna pull back on this friendship or this relationship. And again, those are very individual, you know. I have a friend that I just know she'll probably be late. I know she loves me. She loves me dearly. She's not good at being on time. And that's fine. I just plan that in. It's not personal.
Nadja 53:27
Oh, thank you so much, Erin, for sharing. Is there anything else you would like to add or mention?
Erin 53:37
Oh, like we said the last time, I do one-on-one coaching. I do Seng community groups, all that's on my website. And I'll point out that Sang does a variety of community groups. So if English isn't your first language, they are working on adding other languages into that. Because sometimes even if you speak English, it's can be easier to talk about some of that stuff in a language you're more comfortable with.
Nadja 54:04
Um I saw they have a Spanish group going.
Erin 54:08
Yeah. And I know that there's people talking about German and Russian and Mandarin, I think. I've heard I've heard different people talking about looking. We have to have a co-facilitator to do this. And so they have to find somebody who is a trained co-facilitator who's also fluent in that language.
Nadja 54:27
So if you're listening and interested in a saying group, participate, see if you like it, and if you speak a second language, see if you can bring it into your native language as well.
Safe Online Connection And Easy Openers
Erin 54:39
Yes, they are really looking to do that as much as possible because giftedness is not just in the English language by a long shot. Oh man, I think about some of the places that I have been and my sister has been, where people know multiple languages and are not literate, but they speak like three, four languages. And I'm like, yeah, I have to write everything down because I can't remember in one language. Yeah. So I I I don't want to uh I want to be very clear about that. And then the other part that I really want people to take away from this conversation is that the percentage of people who are gifted is small. It makes it harder to find. There are still an inordinate, like it's a lot of people in the world. And we now have technology that makes it possible to be friends with, not just like online, I don't know. You can be friends with people all around the world and find your tribe of people wherever. Um, and I think that that's daunting and really encouraging at the same time.
Nadja 55:47
Thank you for sharing. And these community groups are first step in. I think, especially gifted people who are listening, if it resonates, if you feel, you know, this loneliness, join. What I also would like to encourage people is to start being vulnerable if you feel safe in this type of space. And I've seen in my environment if people start being more vulnerable around themselves that other people start to open up more to. But again, I mean, yes, we say that go and and start friendships over the internet, but also be cautious, right? I mean, be safe. Be careful, be safe. Uh, it's still the internet, and there's still a lot of things. Plenty of creeps out there. Yes, and people taking advantage of people who are being vulnerable.
Erin 56:42
The other thing that I would point out as somebody who's a little bit more on the introverted side, one of the tricks that has gotten me over the hump of going up and talking to people is that other introverted people are usually so happy that you will talk to them and start the conversation that you're off the hook for doing it well. If you start it, they're like, yes, now I have somebody I can talk to at this, you know. And coming up with like three basic questions that you can ask anybody. Like, do you have any pets? Do you want pets? Like people will talk about their pets. It's like talking, it's like asking a scientist about their research. People have opinions about pets. And if they don't have a pet, you can ask them, what's the strangest pet you've ever known somebody to have? You know, it doesn't even have to be about them. And it just gets the ball rolling. And or if you can choose any pet, which one would you have? What would you choose? You know, those kinds of starting questions to have in your back pocket that you can pull out instead of like, so the weather.
Nadja 57:52
When you talked about pets, I was like, I don't have pets, but I would love to talk about fidget spinners. Like maybe that's another good topic. And uh today I have this one. This one. Yes, we have the matching ones. We have the matching ones.
Erin 58:06
So see, she has pink because she likes her pink.
Letting Friendships Ebb And Flow
Nadja 58:09
And mine is purple, and you can probably guess that I like purple. So yeah. And if you start talking about fidget spinner and the person isn't too weirded out, then you've probably already made a connection. Exactly.
Erin 58:21
Yes. No, I really I think, you know, having a couple of those things is is a good place to start with these things. And just accept that most people you meet are not going to be your forever best friend. That doesn't mean that they're not interesting and can't don't know things that you don't know. I think being curious is the other thing that really helps me is like, well, what do you do? What does that mean? Like, what do you actually do day to day?
Nadja 58:48
Yeah, you said something very important that friends or people can come into your life for a certain amount of time and they don't need to be there forever. And it's also okay to to welcome new people in and to let others go. So if that if it feels good.
Erin 59:06
Having those friendships that ebb and flow in and out that that that's also fine.
Nadja 59:12
Thank you so much, Erin, for being here. I will link all what you mentioned and we've mentioned in the conversation in the show notes. So thank you so much for being here, and thank you for the listeners to listen. I'm so glad to do this. Yeah, and if this episode was helpful or inspiring, so please like and subscribe. And I see you next time. Bye. Bye bye. I hope you enjoyed this episode and you learned something new. And if you did, please like, subscribe, and leave a review. And if you feel like somebody else that you know could profit from this, please send them a link to this show. And if you want to learn more, you find everything at giftedonleash.com. And you can also subscribe to the newsletter there, so you will always be up to date for new things that are coming. And all the information that we mentioned today will be on the show notes for the episode. So everything is right there for you. And with that said, I wish you a wonderful day, and I see you next time. Bye.